By David Ettinger
A Follow-up
This is a follow-up to my previous blog, “No Revival Coming.” Most of the responses were supportive, and even those that disagreed with me were respectful, well thought out, and carried much weight. (This is what you get when you have outstanding readers who love God’s Word, read it consistently, and live by it!)
The primary objection of those who disagreed with me is that I was ruling out “revival” as if to say that God was through with the U.S, or more accurately, that the world had passed the point of no return. I believe this is true. Another point some made is that God is not done saving individuals, working mightily in their hearts, and they in turn following God with all of their hearts and souls. I absolutely agree!
When I use the word “revival,” I am speaking of a national repentance, as in the U.S. completely repenting of the way it has been heading for the past 60 years, turning 180 degrees in the opposite direction, and falling on our collective knees to worship God.
Individuals doing this: YES! Nationally this occurring: NO WAY.
What Christians Can Expect
In addition to the above translation of “revival” to Westerners – that is, an entire nation turning to God – there is also the hope that we can all retain the comfortable, persecution-free lifestyle we have enjoyed in the West. This is not scriptural.
As a Facebook friend wrote in response to one of my posts: “Remember we who believe the WORD OF THE LORD are going to endure Great Horrible Persecution before MESSIAH returns.”
She’s correct; this is scriptural.
In my “No Revival Coming” blog, I began by referencing 2 Timothy 3:1-4. Verse 1 seems to get overlooked, so let’s look at it again: “But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.” If we’re not yet in the last days, we’re getting awfully close. Society will be rotten to the core, and Christians will be a major target of the unredeemed.
And, in general, this has always been the intended lot of believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. The only thing is, we Westerners have not had to face the following:
- “In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted” (2 Timothy 3:12).
- “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me” (Matthew 5:11).
- “Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse” (Romans 12:14, and note the second part of this verse).
- “Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed” (1 Peter 4:12-13).
And in Daniel’s 70th Week (the final 7 years of this era of human history), we are “promised” the following:
- “As I watched, this horn [the Antichrist] was waging war against the holy people [Christians and Jews] and defeating them” (Daniel 7:21, emphasis added).
- “It [the Antichrist] was given power to wage war against God’s holy people [Christians and Jews] and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation” (Revelation 13:7, emphasis added).
True Revival
For almost 2,000 years, the above verses have been the fate of the followers of Christ – except in the West. But those days ARE coming – at least to some extent. National revival will not occur – especially in a way as to “set the world on fire” – but yes, individual revival will.
So long as your interpretation of “revival” – whether individual or national – includes the fiery furnace Christians will encounter, I think we are not that far apart in thought.
As usual, whether you agree with me or not, please continue to share your outstanding insights!
Bruce Cooper
October 15, 2020
I agree David because that indeed is what God’s Word says. Blessings!
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dettinger47
October 15, 2020
Thank you, Bruce.
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vicklea
October 15, 2020
I have read Daniel numerous times and never really stopped to think about what those verses mean. I think that we are headed toward cleansing and purifying before persecution so that we will be ready for what is to come. It’s obvious that our nation is moving in an ungodly direction.
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dettinger47
October 15, 2020
I absolutely agree, Vickie, about the purifying before persecution. In fact, it’s something I need to write about. As I said, I have the best readers!
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Blue Collar Theologian
October 15, 2020
David, I agree with you completely, 100%.
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dettinger47
October 15, 2020
Thank you, Mandy.
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Tom
October 15, 2020
Thanks, David. I am one of those in the minority who believe Christian ministers took a wrong turn 400 years ago by claiming America was somehow in a covenant relationship with God as the New Israel/New Jerusalem and began applying many Old Testament passages meant only for Israel to this country. The widely-held notion was that America was “one nation under God” when the reality was that while the vast majority of people identified as “Christian” in some sense, the actual number of genuine believers was certainly much smaller. That’s not to say that there weren’t evangelistic and revival meetings in the past where hundreds and even thousands of people genuinely accepted Jesus Christ as Savior or recommitted to Christ, but secularism has gained such ground here that most people are now Bible-illiterate. Most of the “evangelical” churches here in America are so doctrinally bankrupt that it’s difficult to speak of “revival” where there’s so little to revive. The positive is that in these circumstances Christians can finally forget about buttressing up a decaying “Christian nation” and focus on sowing the Gospel.
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dettinger47
October 15, 2020
Great insights, Tom. In fact, if I could place a check mark (indicating a hearty Amen) after each sentence, I would do so!
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Tom
October 15, 2020
Thanks, my friend!
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Robert
October 15, 2020
I think as citizens of heaven we shouldn’t be preoccupied with worldly nations. After all, entities that won’t even exist in the new creation cannot be revived. I’m preaching to myself as a Brit as much as to people across the pond!
Having said that, before the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of our God, people from every nation, tribe and language will be part of that great company of saints. So just because the winds of revival have largely receded in the doldrums of the West, doesn’t mean to say that the Holy Spirit isn’t at work in other parts of the world in demonstrably mighty power.
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dettinger47
October 15, 2020
True. God’s workings in countries we in the West never think about is extraordinary. Having read the Voice of the Martyrs newsletter for almost 30 years, I’ve really come to see how God works with believers in Africa and Asia, and quite frankly and sadly, countries I never heard of before.
Also, I like the way you phrased this: “After all, entities that won’t even exist in the new creation cannot be revived.” Good stuff!
Thanks, Robert. Always appreciate your insights.
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Sheila D.Currie Blake
October 15, 2020
Help us Lord to continue to carry the spark so that your fire can ignite the world in Jesus name. thank you. Amen
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dettinger47
October 15, 2020
Amen, Sheila.
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bryan Johnston
October 16, 2020
These verses refer to the Great Tribulation and the so-called “Tribulation saints” only (the 144,000 Jews/Jewesses left to evangelise on earth.) THESE are the ones Daniel is referring to as “God’s People” – in fact His “CHOSEN People” (although some gentiles will be “chosen” too, as evidenced by Christ’s Words “Many are called but FEW chosen.”) The so-called “church saints” will not be upon the earth, but will have been raptured either at the time the (Final) Antichrist signs the (false) Peace Treaty with Israel, or, less likely, at the mid-point of the Great Tribulation, when Antichrist sets himself up in the rebuilt Temple, demanding worship that is due to YAHWEH alone (“Abomination of Desolation.”)
How do we know this interpretation is True?
Because in the Book of Revelation the so-called “church saints” aren’t mentioned in any way throughout those chapters on the “Great Tribulation” – see the teaching of Dr. Arnold . Fruchtenbaum in his epic tome “The Footsteps of Messiah” (available via http://www.ariel.com) Shalom/God bless+++
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dettinger47
October 16, 2020
Hi Bryan. Can’t say I agree with your theology, but I very much appreciate your insights and thoughtfulness. Blessings.
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Crissy
October 16, 2020
Totally agree with you David .
Thank you for this follow up post .
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dettinger47
October 16, 2020
Thank you, Crissy.
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