I wrote this about 90 minutes before the verdict came in: not guilty on all counts. I still stand my what I wrote below. Thanks.
A question regarding Kyle Rittenhouse … does he not bear any responsibility for showing up at a public event with a rifle? I mean, that’s a scenario with only 2 outcomes: You either shoot someone or you don’t.
I have trouble finding sympathy for him.
I know the issue is about defending himself, but he put himself in that position in the first place.
Not much of a blog, but I continue to be baffled by some of the issues U.S. evangelicals get behind. Is there something biblical about his case I’m missing?
EttingerWriting.com 
Bruce Cooper
November 19, 2021
You’ve got my vote David, common sense seems to have gone out the window!
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
Definitely. And I added in the last point, about the things U.S. evangelicals support. How did gun-related matters become a part of evangelical Christianity? It seems that U.S. Christians would rather support conservative politics than see people saved.
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Bruce Cooper
November 19, 2021
Here is a post that you might find interesting: https://baptistnews.com/article/the-white-evangelical-war-on-truth/ Check it out before you release this comment!
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
Hi Bruce. I thought it was a very good article, but with flaws. I agree with him about 5 of the issues, but really do have doubts about climate change.
And the only other thing I’d say is that despite these counter views evangelicals take which could be ultimately harmful, those I know truly believe in biblical truth and are active in sharing their faith.
Most people have different sides to our personalities, and though we can be wrong in one area, we can be right in another.
Where evangelicals have it right is in the thing that counts most: the stout defense that Jesus is God and is the only way to salvation. Many Christians with a more social-based Christianity are not as firm in this area, and they do Christianity more harm than good.
That said, he makes great points, and evangelicals need to stick to the things they are good at and get off the conspiracy train!
Thanks for the great article, Bruce!
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Bruce Cooper
November 19, 2021
My pleasure David, I worked in the Pittsburg City Hall (teaching Information Technology) for a couple of weeks a short number of years ago and it was an eye opener. There was about a 50/50 split of whites versus blacks and I was totally unprepared for what I experienced. We truly need to walk in our black brothers shoes. Wasn’t sure if you would release this, we truly all need to listen more. Blessings.
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
Thanks, Bruce. No problem releasing that article. I hope people read it and comment on it, but they won’t.
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Tom
November 19, 2021
Good thoughts, David. Evangelicals get wrapped around the axle on temporal issues and forget about the Gospel.
Both the Right and the Left try to exploit particular situations, like this Rittenhouse trial, to their advantage. 75 people have been murdered in Rochester, NY so far this year, one of the highest per capita homicide rates in the country, but not one of those murders was mentioned on CNN or FOX.
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
Great points, Tom, and so true. Amen!
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Bruce Cooper
November 19, 2021
Keys words in my opinion being “both the Right and the Left”.
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
Yes.
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Tom
November 20, 2021
Yeah, Bruce. I see that both CNN and FOX are using this Rittenhouse trial.
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Bruce Cooper
November 20, 2021
No doubt!
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Dale Stroud
November 19, 2021
Chuckling….
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
Feel free to elaborate.
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Dee ❤ Sealed In Christ
November 19, 2021
Agreed. Regardless of how he got the rifle or any of the backstory to this, he had no business being there with an AR 15. Period. What did he think would happen? Hopefully this experience will instill in him the common sense he seems to lack.
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
Thanks, Dee. Well said.
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MBShelnutt
November 19, 2021
https://www.wisconsinrightnow.com/2021/03/12/kenosha-shooting/
I doubt sincerely you watched the trial, and the point you are trying to make is irrelevant.
If you have trouble finding sympathy for a kid trying to save a neighborhood from outsiders bent on burning it down then I can’t help you
Be Well.
They attacked him after he tried to put out a dumpster on fire being pushed into gas tanks. He was scrubbing graffiti from the walls of businesses, and was stalked by a convicted pedophile and two men who have been arrested for multiple violent crimes against women.
Please do better about your research.
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
And all with a rifle in his hand, meaning the potential was there for slaughter, and that’s exactly what happened. The slaying of 2 people trumps all the good you mentioned.
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MBShelnutt
November 19, 2021
All the people he didn’t shoot because they weren’t trying to kill him… the rifle each of the men tried to grab which made them armed, but the law is a simple thing to grasp, unfortunately your heroes have never been able to. The only thing “Trump” is your thinking.
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
He shouldn’t have been there at all. He wasn’t asked, and the best he could have done was kill someone, which he did. He’s done way, way more harm than good.
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MBShelnutt
November 19, 2021
He was asked as recorded by witnesses, he and the other armed men, by the owner of the car source dealership. You don’t even bother to dig just a bit for the facts which are readily available, so available they were introduced as court record. Your line of thinking is what cripples every American from defending themselves from murderous thugs heel bent on anarchy. You can’t just spout media misinformation and expect me to be as clueless as the people who believe it. Do yourself a favor and do some homework.
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
Getting a little bit touchy and personal, aren’t you?
When I said he wasn’t asked, I meant in an official capacity by the a city or county official. A private citizen asked him, and he was under no obligation to comply. Now look what happened.
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MBShelnutt
November 19, 2021
No I’m not being personal or touchy, just being thorough. The owner asked the friend and asked him to get “some guys”. His father lived in Kenosha and it is the town over from his current home. Why are you defending three men who tried to kill a kid and the only reason he survived is because he had a gun? I saw what happened. Apparently you did not.
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
I’m not defending the three guys. Kyle never should have been there with a rifle. I’m sticking to that.
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MBShelnutt
November 19, 2021
I would assume you know what a right is, yes?
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
Of course it was his right to be there. It’s my right to walk into the middle of a heavy-trafficed highway as well. It’s about right decisions, not rights. He made the wrong decision.
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MBShelnutt
November 19, 2021
Perhaps the men that died that night went home and raped another child or beat their wife to death… thank god we will never have to hear that story.
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
Once you bring in the word “perhaps,” it puts a dent on the conversation. Can’t argue suppositions.
But I will concede the fact that the removal of evil people from this world is a good thing.
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MBShelnutt
November 19, 2021
Fair enough, you concede a point, I’ll concede one as well. The outcome of this trial is the correct one. I believe people should be accountable for their actions, Kyle did take two lives but only out of fear of losing his own. The two deceased man would not have stopped hurting others, it is a just outcome for me. I apologize for being emotionally attached to this, you seem a decent man.
Be well.
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annemariedemyen
November 20, 2021
I totally agree with all of your comments.
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MBShelnutt
November 19, 2021
You never will understand. I’m sure you may be a nice person, but you are completely on the wrong side of this. That’s okay, it’s your right to have your opinion. Be Well.
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
Thanks for the discussion, and you, too, be well.
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Angel
November 19, 2021
Why shouldn’t he have been there? His father and grandmother live there.
It was his home for 50% of the time.
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dettinger47
November 20, 2021
He had every right to be there … just not with a loaded rifle.
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MBShelnutt
November 19, 2021
A pedophile and two woman beaters got shot. They didn’t have to be there either, but they chose to burn down a town…and look what happened.
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dettinger47
November 19, 2021
I agree with that point.
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Angel
November 19, 2021
He wasn’t aiming his gun at anyone until he was viciously attacked by the man who raped the 4 little boys.
Many people openly carry in those states. It’s not a crime.
Did you not watch any of the video shot that night or the night before?
Did you not watch the video of this 17 year old being attacked for bringing a fire extinguisher to a dumpster that the pedophile was trying to roll into the gas pumps?
Did you not see him fleeing from the people trying to harm him?
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dettinger47
November 20, 2021
A answered all these claims already both here and on my Facebook page. You simply echo what everyone else is saying.
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Angel
November 19, 2021
You really have no nation at all for evangelicals without the 2nd Amendment.
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dettinger47
November 20, 2021
That’s okay. The Book of Hebrews talks about Christians having no country of their own. With that, the Bible says nothing about the second amendment. Besides, there are Christians in all nations of the world, most of whom have no gun rights or any other freedoms.
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dettinger47
November 22, 2021
Hi Angel. I’ve got a new commenter who joined the fray. For some reason, he goes by the names of Steph AND Stephen. Anyway, his comments are at the bottom. Take a look and see what you think. Thanks!
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Angel
November 22, 2021
It doesn’t sound like they have any assurance of salvation.
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dettinger47
November 23, 2021
No, not at all. A social gospel, but not the real Gospel.
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Angel
November 24, 2021
David, you truly did the work of an evangelist in your replies to him/her. That must be one of your spiritual gifts. 🙂
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dettinger47
November 24, 2021
Thanks, Angel. I just hope some of it got through to him.
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Laura M Bailey
November 20, 2021
I think you know that I love you as a brother in faith and hold you in the highest of regard and respect you immensely. That being said, I do, with all respect, disagree.
I don’t believe we can describe riots, setting fires to personal and public property, the destruction of our towns, cities, businesses…owned by real people as merely “public events” as though it’s a tailgate party and not the criminal behavior that victimizes the people of these towns. And, the the rights and freedom belong solely to those engaging in this criminal behavior and supposition that law abiding citizens should cower, barricaded in their homes while their neighborhoods are destroyed around them….that victims should simply tolerate abuse.
It in no way addresses the fact that many rioters were in fact armed themselves as evidenced by the one who pulled one on Kyle. Nor does it address why it might be acceptable for these criminals to have shown up there? Why was that OK but not OK for those hoping to defend their town?
Why should he be any more guilty for showing up there than they were?
Did he even have a connection to that town? Why yes he does. He lives part-time a mere 20 min away. His father, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and best friend, all live there as had he. In fact he was a lifeguard there.
Could he have stayed home? Yes. But so could have everyone else that was there that night.
But, he was, although armed with a non- concealed weapon, chased down and attacked. Shooting was not his first response. His first response was to run away….they gave chase.
I can’t feel right about placing a guilt upon the person who tried to run away and bestowing a form of innocence upon those, all 3 long term convicted felons engaging in crimal activities who chased down and attacked him.
They too should not have shown up there nor engaging in criminal activity nor attacking others.
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dettinger47
November 22, 2021
Hi Laura. I wrote this to a few others as well (also on my Facebook page): I’ve got a new commenter who joined the fray. For some reason, he goes by the names of Steph AND Stephen. Anyway, his comments are at the bottom. Take a look and see what you think. Thanks!
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Apex Breaking News Today
November 21, 2021
I agree Kyle should not have been out there but who attacks a person holding a gun when they don’t have one to fight with?
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Steph
November 22, 2021
Christians justifying murder, it would appear that Barabass is still the better choice than Jesus.
What would Barabass do? holds more water than what would Jesus do?
Christians justifying murder, absolutely no shame in most of evangelical churchianity.
Glad to see you still have some form of conscious.
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dettinger47
November 22, 2021
Thank you for your opinion, Steph. For me, this is an individual case which I believe Christians are somewhat on the wrong side of. However, make no mistake about it: We are on the absolute right side when it comes to our convictions. And they are:
All humanity is born sinful and destined for eternal judgment.
However, God sent His Son, Jesus Christ, into the world, to save lost humanity from their sins.
Those who confess the name of Jesus will indeed be “saved.”
As such, we will spend eternity with Him in the place He calls “Paradise.”
I pray, Steph, that you come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, and that you will find peace for your soul. The issue of our eternal souls goes far beyond the events here on Planet Earth. They will all pass away, as will we, but our souls will continue on for eternity. We will spend that eternity in either Heaven or Hell. There is no other option.
While you are still in this life, God holds these options out to you. I pray, Steph, you will ask God for His guidance, and that you will find your eternal rest in Him!
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Steph
November 22, 2021
I would not of commented if I didn’t know Jesus Christ. I won’t be presumptuous about my eternal destiny, but I trust Jesus will get me where it is He wants me.
I don’t care much for scare tactics, but your presentation of who Jesus is was graceful.
For me it isn’t about heaven or hell but about magnifying the One who created and died for not just me, but all mankind. The One to whom I owe my existence.
Jesus Christ came not to condemn the world, but to save it. And it didn’t require Him murdering anyone while He was here on earth.
In times like these, I avoid christians as much as possible and push into Jesus for He’s always been the One I find rest in. Even before I knew who Jesus IS, I rested in Him.
Blessings
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dettinger47
November 22, 2021
Thanks for clearing that up, Steph. Just a little sad that you saw this as a scare tactic of some sort. If true, which we believe it is, they’re the most loving words we can possibly share with anyone.
Besides that … glad to make your acquaintance!
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Stephen
November 22, 2021
I understand that each generation has a different way of proclaiming the Kingdom of heaven.
Telling someone that a loving god has destined them to an eternity of torment for 20-90 years of living a life the best way they know how, seems a little far fetched to me. Then tell me that said god is Love? Makes no sense at all. There’s no justice in condemning someone to eternal damnation for 100 years of living. I don’t care what they did.
I understand you don’t agree with me, you’re from the Ray Comfort camp when it comes to presenting the Gospel. That’s fine
Then once someone professes the simple gospel, throw in some additions to what is required to be saved, cause lets be honest, confessing Jesus Christ is not sufficient for salvation as evident by most christian bloggers.
I just wanted to share my take on the situation, and wish you well.
Sorry for the confusion.
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dettinger47
November 22, 2021
I appreciate your reply, Stephen, but it is not biblical. There is a very well-defined Gospel which is clearly stated in the Bible. There are verses that confirm all that I wrote above.
Human logic does not play into it (read the early chapters of 1 Corinthians). You can’t pick and choose when it comes to biblical truth.
Thanks, Stephen, and have a good Thanksgiving.
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Bruce Cooper
November 22, 2021
Hi Steph, I’m curious as to whether I understand your comparison correctly. Are you associating how the Jews chose Barabass over Jesus, with how you infer that some evangelical Christians evidently still justify murder? If you are, I can see your point. Apparently, in the eyes of some evangelical Christians, murder is still justified as it pertains to the Rittenhouse trial and the decision that was rendered. I personally agree with what David has said. When we start to carry weapons and become judge and jury, lawlessness then prevails. Had someone been entering Rittenhouse’s home with a weapon the situation would have been different. My understanding is that there was a curfew in effect and also under the law in that state, citizens are not allowed to openly carry weapons unless they are 18 or older and hunting. Had Rittenhouse, who was 17 at the time, obeyed those lawful restrictions in force he would not have been in this situation, but he willingly chose to ignore them. Decisions have consequences and apparently there are many that think his decisions after “what happened next” are justified. I would call myself an evangelical Christian and I would disagree and there are also many evangelical Christians who would agree with me and David because we see the consequences of following lawlessness. The bottom line from my perspective, using your association of Barabass being chosen over Jesus, is that the decision to free Barabass, who was a convicted murder, was not the right decision then, nor is it now. Hope this helps.
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Steph
November 22, 2021
As believers, let’s keep the conversation in light of the Kingdom of God. Just put aside all worldly affairs and laws. This is the difference between choosing Jesus or choosing Barabass, one can not serve 2 masters.
Rittenhouse is guilty of murdering 2 people because he shot 3 people on the streets and 2 of them died.
He is a murderer.
I think it was no coincidence that only a day before the Rittenhouse verdict,
2 black men convicted of murdering MalcomX were announce to be exonerated of the murder. After serving 50 years in prison of course.
And yet the very next day, Rittenhouse is acquitted of murdering 2 men out protesting for black lives. Coincidence or perhaps providential for those with eyes to see.
Cue the evangelicals to spin this event as justice served.Much like David, they’ve got their bible verses to confirm their beliefs.
But I digress
Barabass represents the world and the things of the world, Jesus represents the Kingdom of Heaven. That’s what I mean by my Barabass example. Nothing more, nothing less.
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dettinger47
November 22, 2021
And what is the Kingdom of God? It is His rule by His laws.
Whenever proclaimed Christians begin playing down the Bible and Bible verses, it makes me truly wonder about their salvation.
There is a social Gospel, and a true Gospel. That true Gospel is proclaimed in the Bible. Once you take away the Bible, you create a Gospel of your own.
This is what it sounds like you’re doing, Steph. You sound like you are advocating a social Gospel, not the true. … Not at least when you disregard those who claim the Bible as their authority.
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Steph
November 22, 2021
Well David, it’s not the first time an evangelical has condemned me. In all honesty, you should refrain from judging another’s salvation. In doing so, you make yourself God.
I do believe Proverbs 21:2 applies to all men in the literal sense.
Jesus Christ is my authority so your opinion of me is moot.
You come from a people who like you, hold scriptures as their authority, then God Himself had to come down a fix their erroneous beliefs of your original religion. Seems to me, the book isn’t sufficient, if it were, Jesus Christ would not of come.
I will not engage this thread anymore but ask all, please, as those who name the name of Jesus, let us all be mindful of extending the grace we have received to all we come into contact with in these trying times and refrain from judging others salvation.
I understand you believe you’re being loving so I will extend the hand of Grace to you and yours. May Jesus bless you all.
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dettinger47
November 22, 2021
Fair enough, Steph. May Jesus bless you as well.
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Doug Lay
November 22, 2021
Steph, do you believe that we are each created in the image of God and if so doesn’t that mean that life is precious and has intrinsic value. I would also ask if you believe that every individual has a right to life. If you believe those things then you must also believe in the right to self defense. Is a person that defends themselves from someone trying to kill them a murderer?
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Steph
November 22, 2021
Doug,
And yet Jesus Christ testifies against your perceived logic.
I’ll trust Jesus instead of you.
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dettinger47
November 22, 2021
Just using your logic about those who quote the Bible … How do you know Jesus testifies against Doug’s logic? Did you read it in the Bible?
I’m not trying to be abrasive here, Steph, but I’m calling for consistency. And regarding issues of eternity and Heaven and Hell, you are aware that one speaks of Hell in the Bible more than Jesus.
But then again, that’s referencing the Bible again … just as you were doing in your comment.
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Doug Lay
November 22, 2021
So you accept Jesus as your divine authority. Very glad to hear that so do I. I believe he is the virgin born son of God, God manifest in the flesh, and he came to give his life to redeem all that will believe. So I would accept his testimony about this or any other question. Would you provide a reference where Jesus testifies against the protection of innocent life or against self defense. In Luke 22:36 Jesus tells his disciples that if they don’t have a sword to sell a garment and buy one. In Exodus 22 it is clearly stated that if you are forced to kill someone that breaks into your home to do you harm there is no “blood guilt”. There are other passages that address this as well.
I would be interested to hear why you think Jesus is against protecting life.
In any case I am glad to hear you accept Jesus as your authority.
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Doug Lay
November 22, 2021
Steph, on another topic. I read earlier where you said you wanted to keep the discussion centered on the kingdom of God, which I appreciate. I saw David responded with a definition of what the kingdom of God is, namely, God’s rule by His laws. I was wondering if you agree with that definition and in your view how does one gain membership in the kingdom? I would love to hear your thoughts.
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Bruce Cooper
November 22, 2021
I understand Steph and I agree about your defined representation and one doesn’t have to look too hard to see justice turned upside down. Just be mindful that not all evangelicals think that way. Blessings!
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dettinger47
November 22, 2021
Not really thinking we have to defend evangelicals to Steph. Though I differ with them on some political issues, I’m with them 100 percent regarding their fidelity to the Bible. Steph seems to have an issue with the Bible, and that’s far bigger an issue than the Rittenhouse thing. Let’s not go overboard, Bruce, condemning evangelicals, which we are, when they are right about so many things.
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Bruce Cooper
November 22, 2021
Key words to be noted in my response to Steph was “not all” David, and the issue I personally was discussing with Steph is what some evangelicals define as justice, in this particular Rittenhouse verdict, and others do not. Assumptions can be assumed broader than they are intended. 🙂 Blessings.
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dettinger47
November 22, 2021
Reasonable enough, Bruce! Thanks for re-entering the ground war! 😅
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Steph
November 22, 2021
I understand Bruce and don’t believe all who take on the evangelical label are the same. As with everything in life, there is good and there is bad.
Grace upon grace and blessings to you and yours.
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dolphinwrite
November 22, 2021
In a free country, and in America, and by all that’s right, we all have the right to walk around armed and protective. All of us. And be responsible. Protect yourself and others.
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Laura M Bailey
November 22, 2021
I don’t think…at least on my own account, am justifying anything. In fact, I don’t believe there are any winners here. A boy chased down and attacked, lost lives, a kid with ptsd and giving to live with what transpired.
I think it’s short sighted to believe that someone, most anyone, who has found themselves in the position of taking a life, whether a policeman, solder or even this kid, doesn’t suffer and grieve to their very soul. You assume that taking a life is without deep consequence or of no effect.
The contrary is evidenced by the amount of veterans who deal with depression, ptsd, etc and police statistics as well.
What shall we conclude as murder?
David killed Goliath, is this murder?
The biblical kings in War? What of G-d in 1 Sam 15:3
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
What does G-d constitute as murder?
Is it the taking of an innocent life?
Any life? Does it apply to a life taken in the course of defending one’s own life or the lives of others?
Date I say that he was found not guilty in the court of our justice system and G-d will have is own judgement in the matter as well.
Let us not forget this…
Matt 5:21-22
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
The truth is Sir, not one of us is guiltless here, not one who is not deserving of death. Thank G-d that we have not been given that which we so richly deserve.
Thus, the need for and provision of, a Savior.
I remind you that your righteousness is like soiled menstrual rags, as is mine. Our salvation and redemption is completely, solely and absolutely a GIFT from G-d.
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Laura M Bailey
November 22, 2021
Excuse me Steph, but you think they were there to support BLM? How is it he was running around calling people the “N” word? Does that sound like a BLM supporter to you? What of these men setting fires and destroying property? Peaceful protesters? This guy?
Rosenbaum had multiple convictions in Pima County, spending just over 14 years in prison. He served the first 10 years on his first rape charge. However, for the two other rape charges he only received sentences of 30 months.
Rosenbaum was charged by a grand jury with 11 counts of child molestation and inappropriate sexual activity around children, including anal rape. The victims were five boys ranging in age from nine to 11 years old.
Huber… Wisconsin court documents show that Huber was convicted of domestic abuse and disorderly conduct in 2018. He also served a prison stint in 2012 for choking his brother.”
I’m not justifying anything but it’s also dishonest to paint these men as innocent, peaceful protesters.
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Steph
November 23, 2021
Not only are you justifying yourself, you’re using scripture to do so. Your problem isn’t with me Laura, you need to take it up with Jesus.
I have no idea why evangelicals have put so much time and money into this case. It has nothing to do with Jesus Christ.
I will not play scripture ping pong as it’s pointless
I will not be responding anymore and wish you well Laura.
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Laura M Bailey
November 23, 2021
I’m not justifying anything Steph. I’m merely stating that it’s dishonest of you to portray these men as innocent bystanders merely there to support BLM in a peaceful protest. In this comment you are replying to, I included ZERO scripture so again, dishonest of you. But, I am pointing out your obvious hypocrisy in the way you you are judging Kyle Rittenhouse and minimizing the actions and characters of the other two.
As per my previous comment, I fail to see where I need to take it up with J-sus. I clearly acknowledged that G-d would judge it for Himself.
As per the questions I posed, I note you were unable to give an answer. And the scripture I presented is true whether you wish to acknowledge it is of no effect. G-ds word rules nonetheless and by H-s measure we have all committed murder in our heart and worthy of death.
Perhaps you may profit more by examining yourself. You clearly have a problem with evangelicals and assume that any christ followers is an evangelucal(?), have allowed bitterness to take root in your heart for it and have taken upon yourself the rights of the judgement seat. You have set your mind upon your own judgement. When this happens, you become unteachable, unleadable, and unusable. I beseech you brother, climb down from that judgement seat and get where you belong, on your knees. This is where I will be, praying for you.
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dettinger47
November 23, 2021
Well said, Laura. I concur.
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Laura M Bailey
November 23, 2021
Thank you dear friend💕
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Steph
November 23, 2021
I thank the both of you for proving my point and expressing your opinions.
Blessings
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dettinger47
November 23, 2021
You’ve proven nothing, Steph. You made no points with any intellect behind them, no logic, no cohesive arguments. You belittled evangelicals while claiming to be a Christian, and displayed nothing but bitterness and condemnation — the same exact thing you accuse evangelicals of doing.
Though it is a cliche, it so applies to you, my friend, you really do need to look at yourself in the mirror.
I wish you the best.
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Steph
November 23, 2021
My point was the kingdom of the world/Satan vs the Kingdom of Heaven which I used Barabass as my example for the kingdom of the world.
I used Jesus and the example of the Kingdom of Heaven, as He IS the Kingdom of Heaven.
My point was that Jesus told us not to murder or kill, even on His deathbed, refused to fight with his fists, never mind a gun.
Jesus who taught to turn the other cheek and the world that teaches to fight and kill if necessary.
Could someone point out where I was condemning people that I might re evaluate what I said and make the appropriate changes.
Thanks
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dettinger47
November 23, 2021
My argument is different than that of the others. Though, turning to the others for a moment, they made a number of points, none of which you answered. They asked you direct questions, none of which you replied to (I’m thinking of Doug Lay in particular).
Regarding murder and killing, they are 2 different things. Yes, we are definitely not to murder, and I already expressed my opinion that Ritterhouse is guilty.
There is justified killing though, as is done on battlefields and in the law system. (Just wanted to straighten that out.)
My biggest concern has been with your statements regarding the Christian faith, Bible truths, and your belittling of those who quote the Bible. (I was hoping the others would stick to those issues, but they didn’t.)
I have been a Christian since 1986, and the biggest red flag I have seen in proclaimed Christians that perhaps they may not understand the faith is their ridiculing those who quote the Bible.
You replied to me that I should not bring up to people about the prospects of Hell. This is totally anti-Christian as eternal life is THE number one issue in all of life. Nothing matters in this world if your eternity is Hell. You can be the most wonderful person in the world and still be condemned to eternal damnation if you reject Christ.
This is the clear truth of the Bible (John 3:36, 1 John 5:11-12). Jesus Himself is the “quoter” of John 3:36, and elsewhere He speaks of the fires of Hell. Of course I’m going to tell people about their eternal “options”!
The reason Christians quote the Bible is because it is the Book of authority we follow. Without it, there is no settled truth. The Bible lays out who Jesus is, the state of the human race, what occurs following this life, and how to be saved from our destined condemnation.
We quote the Bible because we don’t want make up our own rules. When Christianity is based on anything outside the Bible, it is a Christianity of one’s own making, and therefore no Christianity at all.
I’ve seen this dozens of times over the years, and when one questions those who quote the Bible, I’ve got to imagine his Christianity is flawed. This also leads to other denials of biblical truth regarding all kinds of social issues, particularly on what the Bible says about adultery, homosexuality, and other such issues.
To portray Jesus as ONLY a God of love is the hallmark of such wrong Christian thinking. The Bible speaks well of His coming wrath and judgment upon Planet Earth.
Biblically, we cannot pick and choose that which fits our liking and disregard those we don’t like.
The Bible is either God’s ordained Word, or it is not. But one thing you can’t do is turn Jesus, the Bible, and the Christian faith into the image you (plural) you want it to be.
So, as you can see, Steph, I’m way more concerned with your faith than with the Ritterhouse situation.
And by the way, Jesus is not the Kingdom of Heaven. He is the ruler of that Kingdom. The Kingdom, as of now, is in its spiritual state, over which He now reigns in the hearts of His people. Soon, there will be a literal, 1,000-year kingdom over which He will rule in actuality.
So, there are my thoughts and concerns. I think these concerns — and I guess the bottom line would be the condition of your eternal soul — and I believe these thoughts and concerns trump everything else.
Thanks, Steph.
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dettinger47
November 23, 2021
And just one more word, Steph, and this goes for all of us. Note the way you entered the conversation: “Christians justifying murder, it would appear that Barabass is still the better choice than Jesus.
What would Barabass do? holds more water than what would Jesus do?
Christians justifying murder, absolutely no shame in most of evangelical churchianity.
Glad to see you still have some form of conscious.”
You had every right to give your opinion, but do you think you did it graciously? You came in with an angry, condemning tone — how do you think people were going to respond to you? If you truly thought evangelicals were wrong, you should have come in with a gracious spirit, made your points, and see if this “stream” would have gone better by way of tone.
The same goes for me. Thanks.
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bigskybuckeye
November 26, 2021
This situation is wrapped around choices. Choice to carry a weapon. Choice to show up at a moment of civil unrest. Choice to possibly put self in harms way. Choice to use a weapon.
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dettinger47
November 27, 2021
Well said. I agree.
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